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India Should Stop Arming Burmese Military Junta

 

 

 

India should stop arming Burmese military junta

Interview with Hon. David Kilgour and Human Rights Lawyer David Matas

By Mizzima News

April 29, 2007

[Former Canadian Secretary of State –Asia/Pacific (2002-2003), Hon. David Kilgour, and Canadian refugee, immigration and human rights lawyer David Matas, visited India to raise the issue of the Chinese government's continued executions on the Falun Gong Practitioners for their organs. During their trip, they met a number of Indian leaders and raised the issue of India's relationship with Burma. The following is the interview excerpt compiled by Mizzima's Assistant Editor Mungpi and posted April 29, 2007 on their online news website www.mizzima.com ]

Q: Apart from the Falun Gong's case, were you able to utilize your trip to India to raise the Burma issue?

Kilgour: Well, I have just received an email from Guy Horton. As you all know, Guy Horton spent five years doing this study - 'Dying Alive'. He has lobbied hard with the government of Canada, with United Nations trying to raise the issue with the Security Council.

As you know, Burma got on to the Security Council on November 15. It didn't last very long, it was thrown out by the veto wielding countries China, Russia, and for me most astonishingly by South Africa, I don't know why South Africa did that. I am delighted that Arch Bishop Tu Tu criticized the decision saying it was completely against the history of South Africa.

But, I think it is fair to say that Guy Horton's concern about what's going on in the Bay of Bengal gas fields, and as you know China has now been given access to the Bay of Bengal gas fields. It is obviously up to the government and people of India to decide whether their policy has been working with Burma. But I can tell you, I raised the issue the other night with some very influential people in the city to see whether India could take a stronger stand in dealing with Burma. We are told that there is insurgency in the border, there are incursions, and things are going on, but for what is with my reading, the government of Burma is that you don't get much by being nice to them, you really got to be tough, tough as nails with them. And the way they treat their own people, the number of villages, I think its 2300 villages that Horton documented, I think all of that shows that the only thing those people will respect is that some body who is stronger than they are, who refuses to put up with nonsense, especially violence. I hope that the government of India will look at its policy again towards Burma, in the light of what's just happened with those gas fields.

Q: The other day, you met India's former Defence Minister George Fernandez, were you also able to meet other leaders in India?

Kilgour: Well, yes, we met a lot of leaders. Here in New Delhi, we met leaders in the legal profession, and the medical profession in Mumbai. And we are planning to meet a lot of leaders in the country as we can, and I can't tell you how strongly respected in Canada they are. A million Canadians originated from India. This country, because of its democracy, because of its rule of law, because of its independent courts, many of us feel Canada's strategic relationship should be with India in this part of the world.

Going back to Burma, I think it is fair to say that Canadians are increasingly concerned about what's been going on in Burma. We are aware of the river projects and gas field projects and the continued mistreatment of the people, terrible mistreatment. And the fact that Aung San Suu Kyi is now under 62 years, we are worried about her, I think many of us are hoping this will be the year she will be released from house arrest. We had a meeting of the forming of the parliamentarians for Burma about a month ago, and we had parliamentarians from Burma including Prime Minister in exile Sein Win, ministers came from here New Delhi, we had members of parliament from Singapore, and I think we all are taking that this is the year things have to change in Burma and that this talking has been going on for a very very long time and that if the senior general thinks that he can just carry on this way forever, then I very much hope that this year will prove him wrong. One point I should add is that Canada still gets much of its heroin from Burma. If I am not mistaken, one Canadian dies of an overdose of heroin every two days. So, that what Burma is sending to Canada in terms of heroin is costing the lives of many many Canadians and I think that's another reason why Canadians are extremely concerned about the nature of government in we call it Burma. We are not going to call it Myanmar.

Now that the government of India is supplying arms to the Burmese military junta, a few days ago, a top General arrived in New Delhi to give a list of weapons that the Burmese junta wants India to supply to them. Are you aware of this?

Kilgour: No I wasn't aware of that and I am very sorry to hear that the government of Burma, as every body knows should not be the government of Burma, Aung San Suu Kyi's party was elected massively in the election in 1990. And what's happened in Burma has been a tragedy of probably the few greatest proportion in the world. The people of Burma are such wonderful people.

My wife's father helped supply Burma during World War II. What you said know that the Generals are trying to get arms from India is deeply saddening. I think the Canadians are deeply saddened as to why India would supply a single piece of arms to Burma. It is beyond me. That government has no help for whatever it is, nothing but the bad things associated with it and for a country the size and importance of India to help that government in anyway is, speaking personally, saddening. I was telling some leaders in this country the other day that Canada has enormous respect for India, and we want India to take its full place in the world in every sphere economically, diplomatically and so on but I hope that they [India] will re-assess any idea of selling arms to the [Burmese] regime.

As you know, people in their own homes are restricted, and are hunted like rabbits, women are raped, and children are beaten and killed and minority people in Burma are treated terribly. It has to stop. And one way of stopping it would be for the government India to say that look no more. This has to stop and India is the largest democracy in the world and we insist that you become a democracy and we insist that you have proper elections and who ever wins the elections that should be the government of Burma. Now, I also know as you do, that China is extremely unhelpful on this and they are trying everything they can, what ever they can to try to make it hard for democracy and Burma is one of a number of countries there are of course many others like Sudan, and North Korea.

Zimbabwe is another, wherever there is absolutely intolerant brutal dictators the government of China is seems to be egging them on. It's got to stop. All of us who believe in democracy, who believe in human dignity and believe that human rights are in-divisible, have to stand up on these issues and let's start by standing up to Burma.

For speedy political change in Burma, the role of the international community is very much important but without the participation of neighbouring countries it will not be effective as is expected. So, what is your opinion on this?

Kilgour: Well, you will know this better than I do that the foreign minister of Malaysia went to visit Aung San Suu Kyi, representing the ASEAN countries, and he was told he could not see her. Well, if the senior generals and the junta turn down the ASEAN representative saying that he can't see this Nobel Peace Prize Winner, who the world loves and admires, and we all care deeply about, what does it say about the regime, and if ASEAN denied Burma the chance to be the leader for a year, so the neighbours are increasingly taking with the rest of us that Burma has to become a democracy and if the people of Burma want to elect generals so be it but if they want to elect Aung San Suu Kyi or somebody else they should have the opportunity of doing it. A multi-party democracy is sweeping the world except for a few countries and you know who they are as well as I do and Burma if its going to re-gain its place and respect in the world it has to go for democracy. Let me just remind you one fact, that I am told that right after World War II, there were more planes landing in Rangoon then in Hong Kong. I wander what the ration is now, by trying to stay out of the worlds except that they buy arms, the government has hurt its people enormously in every single way and we got to stop it, all of us, especially the government of India has to join in this year to try to make this the year of democracy for Burma.

Matas: My uncle during the World War II served in the British Army in Burma, so have I got a strong connection with Burma and I use to hear a lot of stories about Burma. To hear the plight of the Burmese people for me is personally very sad and it's something that does not reflect to the world of the Burmese people and the potentials of the Burmese state.

It is understandable that the trade sanctions imposed by the international community sometimes worsen the suffering of the people, but our point is there should be at least an arms embargo against the military junta.

Kilgour: Absolutely, I mean there must be an arms embargo against the junta, I would like to see Ivanhoe, which is a Canadian company leave Burma, I have been indicating that to the senior management of Ivanhoe. It's terrible that a Canadian company should be operating in Burma in this circumstance. Yes, we got to get all the Canadian companies out of it. If you can imagine the Canada pension plan, which all Canadians pay, they buy shares of companies and they actually bought shares in somebody's company that is doing business in Burma and that has to stop. I think you can see increasing pressure in Canada to get all Canadian companies out of Burma until democracy is restored in Burma.

Matas: In a large measure, what we are seeing in Burma is autocracy, a group of people in power out to enrich themselves. Sanctions in that situation should be targeted to the leaders of the junta from travel, in terms of international bank accounts, and in terms of what they personally can import. And you can have sanctions that are targeted in that way that can have an impact on the autocracy at the top with out harming the people as a whole.

Kilgour: I absolutely agree with that. Why should the senior general be allowed to give diamonds at his daughters wedding, which we all saw? I mean that's exactly the point David is making, you can get rich by drugs or by stealing money from the people, I mean it's intolerable. This is got to be the year that Burma joins the family of nations, and Canada should take a role on that and India can take a far bigger role then Canada. But I sense the other night talking to a former diplomat for India that some how there is a worry about Burma. And I couldn't help saying to myself that what is India worried about Burma for? How can a country with the resources and people and so on in this country be worried about a few generals who lead very few other then themselves and their daughters' diamonds, I suppose you could say. Why can anybody have any fears of this kind of tyrants?

How do you view the current India foreign policy on Burma?

Kilgour: Well, as I was suggesting, I would like to see that, especially in the light of what's happening in the Bay of Bengal, I hope the government of India would re-examine its policy towards Burma. And speaking as a citizen of the world, I hope they would know that India can play a key role in this just as they can play a key role in Nepal and then other places, especially from the stand point of the rule of law and democracy and dignity of people. So, that's India's role in this sector, to become the leader of the democratic developing world.

Are you saying that India will benefit more from a democratic Burma?

Kilgour: It will benefit, for one thing the skirmishes on the border will stop instantly. There will be no more buying arms, killing people, shooting children all of these terrible things happening in Burma would stop. And then, because one thing we do know about democracy is, democracies don't go to war with each other, they don't make lives miserable and so that's one of the other arguments for democracy in Burma. And there would be peace in the region and Burma would become a member of peaceful family of nations. Instead of sending heroin, hopefully to countries like Canada in large quantities all of this would stop, it would just be diminished.

You just mentioned that Canadian Parliamentarians are hoping that this is the year for Daw Aung San Suu Kyi to be released. Can you tell me more about it. Why do you think so?

Kilgour: Well, because I have some good reasons to believe that the senior general in Burma was is in-charge of things when the terrible attack took place and she [Aung San Suu Kyi] was almost killed. But fortunately she wasn't but certainly a lot of people are worried enormously about his involvement in that earlier attack and that I hope he didn't have an involvement in that raid but everything I know suggested that he did have and that a lot of people were killed and Aung San Suu Kyi might well have been one of those who were killed. If anything happens to Aung San Suu Kyi, the world loves her, we admire her, we read her books and we know how much courage she has and what's she is been through, and we are worried about her health and we are worried about how she's been treated. When the Foreign Minister of Malaysia, representing ASEAN, can't see her, I mean, what does that say. That says that the senior general thinks that he can get away with anything. And if he thinks that, there is a terrible implication. So, I have been an admirer of her [Daw Suu], all of us have been, we love her and we think she is the person who fights for democracy in the most difficult of circumstances.

Matas: Well, I agree with what Kilgour says. She is a model this is what we look forward to in democracy. People are prepared to stand for their rights. And she is the Burmese Mahatma Gandhi and she follows the tradition of Gandhi and so India who identifies with Gandhi should identify with people who take up his tradition and support her as a modern day incarnation of Gandhi.

What would you like to say on Canada's policy of taking Burmese refugees for resettlement?

Kilgour: Canada took 800 refugees last year. I was in the reception when they arrived in Ottawa, there were about 120. Can you imagine some of the people had lived in a refugee camp for more 15 years? And the government and the minister of immigration have decided and we are going to take happily another 2,000 in Canada. The Burmese refugees have done well in Canada. And we are very happy to have them.

Matas: Yea, I am familiar with this movement, and its significant not only for Burma but it is significant in terms of Canadian and global refugee policy because this group was brought to Canada as a group historically and typically when refugees are resettled in those individual refugee determination and there's a case by case examination whether an individual circumstance justify protection but in this case the whole group was determined to need protection without individual determination, which is obviously a lot more efficient, and in this context they are real so it made sense it was cost efficient provided the global form of protection. I mean this Burmese refugee experiment was important not just for Burma, but for development of refugee policy in Canada in general.

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Canadian Friends of Burma (CFOB)
145 Spruce St. Suite 206
Ottawa, ON   K1R 6P1
Tel: 613.237.8056
Fax: 613.563.0017
Email: cfob@cfob.org
Website: http://www.cfob.org

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